Lawyer Zhiheng's conversation with Big Fish Chat Room - "Law firms merge and grow bigger, how can we deeply integrate and seek common development?" Interview record
Li Weixiang, Director of the Supervisory Board and Director of the Intellectual Property Center of
, Liu Hong, Deputy Director of the Management Committee of
, Zhang Nanan, Member of the Management Committee of
and Director of the Criminal Center, was invited by the Big Fish Chat Room to discuss the new stage of the development of the legal industry and how law firms can deeply integrate and seek common development in the Big Fish Live Room based on Zhiheng's practical experience.
The following is a transcript of the conversation.
Source | This article collates the live broadcast records of Li Weixiang, Liu Hong and Zhang Nannan from the Big Fish Chat Room Big Fish Talk to
Big Fish: Xinze has always had a very clear and firm judgment on the development of the legal industry: in the next 5 to 10 years, scale will remain the greatest certainty for the development of China's legal industry.
We mentioned in our scale-up report released at the end of 2022 that the scale-up of China's legal industry has gone through two stages:
The first stage is the 1.0 stage, the natural growth stage. Since 1992, a number of now famous law firms have been established one after another. Some law firms represented by Dacheng, Bank of China, and Deheng have reached a certain number of lawyers by natural growth and achieved a certain urban coverage.
The second stage is the 2.0 stage, the active growth stage. We found that 2012 was a watershed year for the scale of Chinese law firms, especially the currently ranked law firms. The wave of scale that began in 2012 has brought a lot of dividends, and many law firms have achieved rapid growth and ranked among the top in this stage.
Similarly, in addition to the national offices that are mainly located in the north, there was also a watershed in the scale of local offices in 2014.
Whether it is a national firm or a large-scale firm, under the process of law firm scale in the past ten years, many law firms have achieved a certain degree of local or national coverage. If law firms want to develop in a better direction, becoming bigger and stronger must be the only way, then a logic will naturally be deduced, that is, the integration between law firms will become an important option for the sustainable development of law firms, and everyone's attention will shift from incremental space to stock space.
In the main indicators of public legal services during the "14th Five-Year Plan" period issued by the Ministry of Justice, it is clearly mentioned that 20 international first-class law firms will be built by 2025. In southern China, if only in terms of scale, there is still a lack of "large firms" that can rival Beijing and Shanghai law firms, which obviously does not match the level of economic development in southern China.
Therefore, in the future, law firms in South China will continue to grow bigger and stronger, and the possibility of competing for "world-class law firms" must be very high.
Zhiheng is a law firm worthy of attention in South China. It was established in Shenzhen in 1995. In 2021,
made a strategic transformation, absorbed and merged several local law firms, and introduced a team of professional professional managers. At present, Zhiheng has more than 400 practicing lawyers and administrative staff nationwide, and has been deployed in Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Shenzhen Qianhai, Shenzhen Longgang, Jinan, Dongguan, Foshan, Haikou, Kunming, Xi'an and other places.
The three guests we invited today are all from Guangdong
. They are lawyer Li Weixiang, director of Zhiheng's supervisory board, lawyer Liu Hong, deputy director of the management committee, and lawyer Zhang Nannan, member of the management committee. The three lawyers are firsthand witnesses and participants in the process of Zhiheng's integrated development. Today, they will focus on the high-quality development of law firms and the large-scale development of law firms, and talk about the new stage of the development of the legal industry, how law firms can deeply integrate and seek common development.
01 What is the high-quality development of a law firm?
Big Fish: In fact, there are not as prominent top law firms in the Guangzhou-Shenzhen area as in the Beishang area, but Zhiheng has developed rapidly in recent years through a series of restructuring, joining, mergers and other measures. The Shenzhen Municipal Bureau of Justice has also recently released the "Three-Year Action Plan for the High-Quality Development of the Law Industry in Shenzhen (2023-2025) ". I would like to ask lawyer Li Weixiang first, as a senior who has practiced in this industry for nearly 30 years and is also one of the founders of Zhiheng, how do you understand the high-quality development of law firms?
What aspects does it include? What should the so-called "quality strong firm" look like?
Li Weixiang: Our law firms in the Greater Bay Area do lag behind those in Beijing and Shanghai in terms of management level and development scale, but I believe that the future era must be the era of the Greater Bay Area. The Greater Bay Area has such a good market, such good opportunities, and such a good window of internationalization. Without a truly international first-class law firm, it is not in line with the law of market development.
is based in the Greater Bay Area. During the development process, we have been continuously merging with truly high-quality, high-level professional firms and boutique firms, in order to become bigger and stronger and achieve high-quality development.
Regarding the high-quality development of law firms, I believe it mainly includes the following aspects:
1. Create a highly inclusive and cohesive culture.
The characteristic of a strong firm is not only its size, it must have very strong cohesion and combat effectiveness. And cohesion and combat effectiveness are mainly reflected in culture. With a culture of unity and struggle, law firms have the opportunity to become stronger.
2. Cultivate high-level and first-class competitive professional fields, with cutting-edge and complex legal problem-solving capabilities.
If the profession is not strong, it is just talk on paper. Only if the profession is strong enough can it truly be able to benchmark international first-class professional lawyers, or the highest-level experts in China, and the law firm will be stronger. In addition, under the vigorous development of the digital economy, frontier fields such as artificial intelligence and big data also require lawyers to have the service ability to solve difficult and complex legal problems.
3. An efficient management model and management system.
An efficient management model and management system are of paramount importance. Only with a good management model and management system can outstanding lawyers bring out the greatest value.
4. Own multiple high-value teams and a high level of per capita revenue generation.
A high-value team means that it can provide the best solutions to the market and customers. The per capita income level is one of the reference factors to measure the value. The per capita income of law firms at home and abroad is very high, and the value they create is also very large.
5. Strong brands with high reputation and popularity, adhere to fairness and justice, pay attention to disadvantaged groups, and create higher social value.
A brand with a high reputation is a brand recognized by the society; it is necessary to cherish the brand like cherishing its own feathers and pay attention to risk prevention; a high-quality law firm needs to adhere to fairness and justice, pay attention to disadvantaged groups, and take social responsibility.
As for what kind of law firm can be called a "strong firm", I believe that first of all, it must reach a high standard in multiple professional fields, gain the favor of clients and be widely recognized by peers. The road to a professional firm or a boutique firm is very difficult, so a law firm must be in a state of flourishing, with at least 3-5 areas of expertise.
A high-quality law firm must be a law firm favored by customers and recognized by peers. Law firms need to have good roots in the industry, spread positive energy, and help each other with peers.
Secondly, it is necessary to have a high level of management, so that clients and lawyers can feel efficient service and rigorous and meticulous experience. The traditional law firm management operation model cannot meet the increasingly diverse, complex and cutting-edge needs of clients, so we must also innovate the management model and enhance the customer experience with advanced and efficient services.
Once again, it is necessary to have a relatively large scale and generate revenue. If the law firm does not have scale and does not generate revenue, it means that the law firm's resource integration ability is very weak, and it cannot provide customers with systematic legal solutions. Naturally, it is difficult to become a relatively high-quality brand.
Finally, the spiritual outlook should be positive, energetic, friendly and inclusive colleagues, mutual support, Customer relationship harmony.
Big Fish: The high-quality development law firm described by Director Li is like a hexagonal warrior who needs to be strong in all aspects.
Liu Hong: In the final analysis, high-quality development is to develop in the direction of "high, refined, and specialized", and the core lies in "specialized". Professionalism creates the quality of a law firm, and professionalism is also the foundation and opportunity for our development.
To measure whether a law firm is a strong firm, it is not about the size of the office building or how luxurious the decoration is, nor about the number of people or the size of the team. A law firm with quality should pay more attention to the management level of the law firm, the cohesion of the law firm, the influence of the brand, the coordination of the internal team of the law firm, the business ability of the lawyers and the team, and the satisfaction of the clients.
Zhang Nannan: In order to better meet the needs of customers, law firms should pay attention to the scale of personnel, the scale of business and the scale of structure in their large-scale development. At the same time, the application of artificial intelligence legal technology should be introduced in a timely manner.
In my opinion, the real strong firm, first and foremost, focuses more on the customer experience. Including providing high quality services in legal services, providing a good experience in client reception, communication and feedback. Being able to truly understand the needs and concerns of clients and provide personalized services to clients.
Second, have a team of professional standards. Not only do you need to have legal knowledge and experience, but also excellent communication, negotiation and collaboration skills.
Third, have a good corporate culture and humane management. Including respect, attention and responsibility to customers, employees and society, emphasis on teamwork and innovation, and emphasis on improving efficiency and quality. The corporate culture of a large law firm should be able to attract and retain top talent.
And finally, sustainability. Financial, operational and managerial sustainability.
02 How to choose the right scaling path for you
Big Fish: I have always firmly believed that scale is a very important component of the high-quality development of law firms. In a law firm with only three or five people, no matter how strong it is, people will generally think that the lawyers and the team are strong, not the law firm. In fact, law firms are increasingly emphasizing the development of scale.
But there are many paths for the large-scale development of law firms. How to choose the model that suits your own law firm? Are there differences in path selection at different stages of law firm development?
Liu Hong: There are many paths for the large-scale development of law firms. The first is to grow naturally.
Looking back at the development of China's lawyer industry, when the lawyer system was just restored, law firms were state-owned and subordinate to the judicial administrative department, and the scale was very small. The earliest partnership law firm in China was Shekou Law Firm, which was born in Shenzhen. It was a milestone in the reform of China's lawyer system. After that, law firms in Shenzhen have sprung up like mushrooms after a rain.
At present, the number of law firms in Shenzhen has reached 1,225. With the development of the economy, the increase in business volume, and the continuous strengthening of social awareness of the rule of law, the law firms established in the early days have slowly developed and expanded. Some firms have begun to focus on brand building, introduce some management mechanisms, and gradually become law firms with certain influence in the industry.
The second is to make a layout and merge to make it bigger.
Some boutique firms or newly established law firms have planned and targeted large-scale development. They will learn from the development experience of some better brands, introduce modern management mechanisms, establish management models and operating structures, set the development orientation of law firms, formulate medium- and long-term development strategies, formulate development goals, and implement an integrated law firm brand strategy.
They will set up branches in some regions, and will also absorb some boutique small firms or elite teams with similar development concepts. "Plant a plane tree, and there will be a phoenix". The rapid development of law firms benefits from a good management mechanism. Law firms and lawyers empower each other and achieve each other.
But no matter which path is taken, it is very important to follow the trend. Partners and teams need to establish a common cultural concept, a common value pursuit, and a common ideal and belief in order to walk more steadily and go further. The so-called walking steadily and going far, I think this may be the truth.
Li Weixiang: I think improving the internal resource integration ability of law firms is another way to achieve scale. Law firms with strong resource integration ability are relatively easy to do large-scale. The internal resource integration efficiency of many large domestic firms may reach 60% to 70%, which is reflected in that if the income level of lawyers is 1 million, through the internal resource integration of law firms, it may increase by 60% to 70%.
Of course, at different stages of scale, law firms have different ability to integrate business, human resources, and professional resources. A high level of resource integration ability can "multiply" with management efficiency and management system, which is also conducive to large-scale development. On the contrary, resource integration ability is weak, and large-scale development is not sustainable.
Secondly, party building can also promote large-scale development. Doing a good job in party building can unify fragmented and loose groups in thought and become a strong fighting team with common ideas. Only in this way can it snowball and get bigger and bigger.
Big Fish: The law firm capabilities and scale mentioned by Director Li are mutually reinforcing. With these capabilities, large-scale development can be supported, and in turn, large-scale development can better enhance the law firm's capabilities.
03 How to Determine Whether a Law Firm Merger is Successful
Big Fish: How to measure the success of a merger between law firms? What are the factors that guarantee the success of a merger?
Zhang Nannan: I think mergers between law firms should consider "similar size, similar pain points, integrated concepts, and complementary businesses".
In recent years, more and more law firms have begun to consider mergers in order to expand their scale and improve their competitiveness. Merging between law firms is also not an easy task, and many factors need to be considered, including concept, business, etc.
There are many prerequisites for a successful merger between law firms. First, the objectives of the merger should be clear, and both parties should share a common vision and strategic plan. Second, the cultures and values of the pre-merger law firms should be similar to allow for better integration. Third, the merged law firm should have a strong management team that can effectively coordinate and manage various businesses.
Finally, the merged law firm should maintain a high level of professionalism and service quality to attract and retain clients. In addition, it should also focus on internal communication and collaboration, and establish an efficient working mechanism and team culture to achieve long-term stable development of the merged law firm.
And to measure the success of a law firm merger, I think it can be considered in the following aspects -
First of all, whether the size of the merged law firm has been expanded. The merger should be 1 + 1 > 2, rather than the smaller the merger. The size of the merged law firm should bring more resources than before, including case sources, human, material and financial resources, and be able to improve the competitiveness and market position of the law firm.
Secondly, whether the business capabilities of the merged law firm have improved. The business capabilities of the law firm mainly include business scope and business quality. After the merger is completed, the law firm needs to integrate their respective businesses to avoid duplication and conflict, while improving the professionalism and quality of the business to meet the needs of clients.
In addition, whether the ability to resist risks has been enhanced. I am a criminal business myself, and I also practiced in a criminal law firm before. I think the ability to resist risks of a small business that only does a single business is relatively weak, especially during the past epidemic, the criminal business has been hit very hard. There are other fields of business such as real estate, which are also greatly affected by policy changes.
And a comprehensive large firm, or a merged law firm, with the integration of its business, its ability to resist risks will be enhanced.
Finally, whether the management ability of the merged law firm has been improved. The management ability of the law firm directly affects the operation and development of the law firm, and determines whether the law firm can effectively integrate resources and teams to achieve healthy development.
Merger is an important strategic choice, and only through reasonable measurement and evaluation can we achieve complementary advantages and common development.
Big Fish: When a law firm chooses to merge, it should not be based solely on temporary loyalty or simple reference or imitation. The purpose of the merger must be clear, that is, to make the law firm develop better, which is reflected in whether the business can grow, whether costs can be reduced, whether lawyers can cooperate effectively, and whether the final income will increase.
Liu Hong: Whether the merger of law firms is successful depends on whether a consistent cultural concept can be formed, which determines whether it can continue to go forward and do better. The second is to see whether the management model can reach a unified opinion, including text format, financial management, risk control management, etc. The third is to see whether the cultural values are agreed with each other, whether lawyers can communicate and integrate, and there is a resonant concept.
Only by recognizing the value pursuit of law firms can we truly achieve the goal of complementary advantages and resource integration.
Big Fish: The essence of a law firm is a "people" organization, and "merger" is to bring people together in the end. But a partnership is not a partnership. For example, everyone eats in the cafeteria, you eat yours, and I eat mine. Although they are all at the same table, it is not called a partnership, but a collision, called a joint office.
But if everyone eats at the same table in a restaurant, I can eat your dishes, and you can eat mine, and everyone can eat better. This is called a partnership.
Li Weixiang: In my opinion, the words "harmony" and "union" just represent the state after the merger. "harmony" means that people's hearts are united, cultures are united, spirits are united, and ideals are united. It is very important that everyone can pursue common ideas and work together. And "harmony" means the superposition of resources, professional level, and competitive ability. "harmony" is the unity of the spiritual level, and "harmony" is the unity of the material level.
04 How can law firms form a unified culture?
Big Fish: From the perspective of Zhiheng's practice, how can lawyers or teams with different backgrounds identify with a unified law firm culture? What are the key measures for the formation of a unified law firm culture?
Liu Hong: First of all, the identity concept and value pursuit of a law firm must match the development nature of the industry, and we must keep in mind our mission and responsibility. The goals, positioning and vision of a law firm's development should reflect the characteristics of the industry, so that the established cultural concept can be recognized by lawyers or teams with different backgrounds.
For example, Zhiheng's cultural concept emphasizes "the unity of knowledge and action, constant and far-reaching", which means that cognition must be highly consistent with behavior, firm in concept, perseverance, and steady in order to go further. This not only combines the name of the law firm, which is concise, clear, catchy, easy to remember, but also assigns value to the promotion of the law firm, so that customers can have a more intuitive impression.
We have integrated the professional conscience, professional ethics, and craftsman spirit that lawyers should adhere to into the law firm culture, becoming an important core and driving force for promoting and promoting the sustainable development of the law firm.
We also attach great importance to the dissemination of culture. Our media matrix, such as official accounts, WeChat Channels, websites and other platforms, as well as various activities held, must reflect the image of the law firm and convey the cultural concept of the law firm to the outside world.
In addition, the law firm's party building work is also very important for the promotion and integration of the law firm's cultural concept. Party building and firm building should promote each other. We have ten business centers, each of which has party members and lawyers. The excellent professional quality and outstanding business ability of party members and lawyers are like a light that can influence and illuminate others. This will play a very positive role in promoting the integration of culture, business and emotion after our merger.
In addition, Zhiheng has a very strong and well-trained executive team, and regularly organizes activities for young lawyers and partners every month to promote the integration of lawyers and teams from different backgrounds.
Li Weixiang: Another important point is to create a "family culture". Building a law firm with temperature is the consensus we still maintain after the transformation. Zhiheng has been putting harmony first for more than 20 years, spreading our ideas through the construction of a warm culture and a warm institutional system.
Temperature refers to mutual respect, mutual understanding, mutual support, and the ability to seek common ground while reserving differences. This is the foundation for the development of law firms, and then through various aspects of cultural and sports activities, business support, management empowerment, etc. to achieve the purpose of cultural integration.
Temperature alone is not enough, but also real courage to use good institutions to promote the realization of ideals. This requires us to clarify our goals - what kind of high-quality law firm we want to build.
The veteran lawyers of our local law firms in the Greater Bay Area all share the same ideal, which is to become an excellent law firm in the country or a first-class law firm in the world. The law firms in Beijing and Shanghai have sung a one-man show for so many years. There are many places for us to learn in the Greater Bay Area, but we are more unwilling in our hearts.
Going national and going global is the heart of all lawyers in the Greater Bay Area. For Zhiheng, it is to build a law firm that is professional, has first-class management level, and can provide customers with the best service experience.
05 How can law firms attract the best lawyers and teams?
Big Fish: How does a brand law firm attract lawyers and teams to join? What factors are most important to lawyers or teams?
Zhang Nannan: For law firms, there are four ways to attract lawyers or teams to join -
First, the brand law firm needs to establish a good reputation and brand perception. A good law firm brand is also easier for clients to choose.
Second, the head or management of the law firm should clarify the development orientation of the law firm and lawyers. This is related to the development of lawyers or teams after entering the law firm.
Third, branded law firms need to offer competitive revenue generation and high-quality collaborative teams. Compensation and benefits are one of the key factors in attracting and retaining good lawyers and teams, such as medical insurance, annual leave, flexible working hours, etc., to attract and retain good lawyers and teams.
Fourth, brand law firms need to provide a good working environment and law firm culture. For example, encourage employees to innovate and pay attention to the balance between work and life of employees. For example, the Women's Workers Committee of Zhiheng gives great care to female lawyers. If a lawyer needs to bring children to work, the Women's Workers Committee will also provide corresponding assistance.
From our observations and experience, the following factors are likely to be of greatest concern to lawyers or teams at branded law firms:
First, the professional experience that a law firm can provide. The team of lawyers must have solid legal knowledge and rich practical experience in order to provide high-quality legal services to clients. In a branded law firm, the professionalism and experience of the lawyer or team are often one of the most important factors.
Second, the service quality of the law firm and the recognition of the law firm by clients.
Third, the internal cooperation and coordination mechanism of the law firm. In Zhiheng, the law firm has a very good understanding of the business of each lawyer. When there is a case, it can be quickly matched with a suitable lawyer, and there are clear system regulations on the allocation method.
Fourth, commercial acumen and innovation ability. Brand law firms need to have commercial acumen and innovation ability in order to better provide legal services to clients. For example, in new business areas such as AI, do law firms need to develop corresponding legal service products?
Fifth, the degree to which the law firm promotes the team and lawyers. Such as training mechanism, growth space, etc.
Every lawyer has a dream and hopes to have a platform to develop together with him. Whether the law firm can provide a standardized, convenient, comfortable and warm environment is very important for young lawyers and elite lawyers.
Li Weixiang: The development of any law firm, or the ultimate success, must be the choice of the times. Whether we can understand the pain points of the development of law firms is very important. We must understand what kind of law firm and what kind of lawyers are needed in this era, and the goals and concepts set by law firms must conform to the goals and concepts of the times.
It is also very important whether these goals can be achieved in the end. If you brag about it, but there is no specific path to achieve it, you will not be able to achieve the set goals. We must stand on the shoulders of giants. There are many strong law firms in China. We must learn from their management models, professional construction, marketing capabilities, human resources construction, etc., and use their successful experience to build ourselves into a better and stronger platform.
By doing both, we can better attract outstanding lawyers or teams and address their needs.
06 How lawyers and law firms can empower each other
Big Fish: The alignment of cultural concepts and value pursuits, including publicity and party building, is actually the spiritual "integration" mentioned by Director Li just now. So, specifically at the "merger" level, how can the development and system of the team be integrated with the system and strategic planning of the law firm? How can the team borrow from the law firm and how can the law firm empower the team?
Li Weixiang: First of all, we have long established the overall goal of building a strong firm, which is to build a world-class law firm. At the law firm level, we hope to break through the obstacles of team and department cooperation through institutional system construction.
Secondly, we also actively promote lawyers and teams to borrow from law firms. We have a management team of professional managers and a very strong executive team, who can provide great support to lawyers, making operation management very efficient. Therefore, in terms of the integration of business resources, the improvement of professional capabilities, and the creation of development space, once lawyers need support, law firms can provide help as soon as possible.
In addition, the law firm takes the initiative to empower the team, needs to do better and higher planning, benchmark the international first-class team, and give the team intimate policy support in details, not only cost and fee support, but also more support in the growth of lawyers and professional ability. When a lawyer joins Zhiheng, he is actually behind a large team of dozens of people, providing him with comprehensive promotion and support.
Coupled with the aforementioned system construction, a stable institutional system guarantees the culture, so that all people can enjoy the support and empowerment of the law firm fairly.
Of course, the team itself should also be continuously improved and optimized. One is professional optimization, the other is organizational management level optimization, and the third is the creation of legal service products and service system optimization. Doing these well can lead to rapid improvement.
Liu Hong: On the one hand, I think the team needs to actively integrate into the law firm, recognize the strategic plan of the law firm, integrate into the cultural atmosphere of the law firm, and abide by the management system of the law firm. The team should help the development of the law firm, just like rowing a dragon boat. Each of us is just a paddle. We must think in one place and work hard in one place, so that the dragon boat can move forward according to our established goals. This is called unity, symbiosis and win-win.
On the other hand, law firms should also improve their internal management systems and coordinate internal and external resources.
We have two tenets. The first is that we want to provide our clients with high-quality and efficient full stack legal services. Lawyers and clients should empower each other and achieve each other. If the client is good, the lawyer will be good, and the law firm will be good. The second is that we want to create a warm, standardized and convenient practice guarantee platform for lawyers. If the lawyer is good, the customer satisfaction will be high, and the law firm will be better.
The law firm improves the internal management workflow, which can ensure the efficiency and quality of daily management, and can coordinate internal and external resources well, so as to play the purpose of empowering. Our team mainly does civil and commercial business. Some time ago, we participated in a relatively large project bidding and needed the support of lawyers in financial compliance. After the law firm understood our needs, it immediately matched us with relevant lawyers, and finally made the bidding materials smoothly.
summary
Big Fish: Today, the three guests shared a lot of perspectives and experiences on the integrated development of law firms. The ultimate goal of the in-depth integration of law firms is to achieve high-quality development.
I believe that there are three important points for law firms to achieve high-quality development.
First, follow the trend. Behind the trend are objective market laws. The overall development level of Guangdong's legal industry is not in line with the level of economic development. But according to the trend and law, there will definitely be more big and strong law firms in the Greater Bay Area.
Second, the integration of knowledge and action. Zhiheng has grown rapidly in the number of lawyers and branches in a very short period of time, which is not easy to achieve. As Director Li just mentioned, whether or not the goal can be achieved is the most important thing.
Third, seize the opportunity. If you have an idea, just do it. But first judge whether there is an opportunity, second judge whether there will be more opportunities, and finally judge whether there is a chance to be the first wave. Entrepreneurs often say that when you find a rocket in front of you, don't care where you are, just go up, otherwise everyone else has already taken off, and you have to pay a lot to be able to keep up with it.
* This article is from the official account